I'm so frustrated by Nakase not playing Amihere the minutes she deserves.
Look, Burton/Salaun/Thornton/Hayes have pretty much locked in their spots and their selections make sense even if I'm not the biggest fan of Thornton. What doesn't make sense, is why Fagbenle is getting minutes over a budding star in Amihere.
Here me out, lets start with Fagbenle. In terms of pure volume scoring, Fagbenle scores 10 ppg in 25 mpg while Amihere scores 9 ppg in 18 mpg. Per 36, Amihere is scoring 3 more points per game. In efficiency, they're identical. In rebounding, Amihere has a clear advantage with an elite 19 rbd% compared to Fagbenle's pedestrian 13 rbd%. In terms of rim protection, Amihere has a vastly superior blk% of 6.3% compared to Fagbenle's 3.3%.
In terms of net plus minus, the Valkyries are 6.8 pts worse with Fagbenle on the court. The Valkyries are 3.7 pts better with Amihere on the court. In damn near every facet of the game, Amihere is superior or at least even to Fagbenle. And Amihere is just 23 years old with lots of room for improvement while Fagbenle is 32 yrs old.
And yet, Fagbenle recevies 7 more minutes a game than Amihere. For the love of god, give Amihere those minutes and let her develop. She is imho, the future of this franchise if she maintains this level of play while scaling up her minutes.
I appreciate the enthusiasm for Amihere, but they’ve had two games of overlap and in the last game they got almost the same playing time. In the previous one (also v SEA), Temi was +3 and Amihere was -3.
So it’s waaay too early to be frustrated with Nakase.
If Amihere outplays Fagbenle consistently, then over time she’s going to get more and more playing time. But for now, Amihere is making a ton of bad defensive decisions to go along with the great plays (mainly against opposing benches). She may be the future but she has to earn her playing time with game plan discipline.
Even with those bad decisions, her plus minus is vastly superior to Fangbenle who is imho overrated as a defender playing solid enough positional defense but being an utter non factor in rim protection.
I think she's earned her playing time by being a better rebounder, rim protector, scorer, slightly better passer and the team has been far better with her on the court than Amihere. We'll just agree to disagree there.
It’s too general. Only since it’s your argument, provide the stats that you’re working off of, so we can see how you arrived at this conclusion. Otherwise it looks like selective number crunching to prove a point you’re attached to.
We can agree to disagree about Amihere’s current play.
My point is that there was literally nothing to complain about Nakase’s rotations.
Amihere debuted on 6-14. There was no statistical track record for her and it would be insane to start a new player who had not been claimed by the entire league over your starting center. Then Temi left for Eurobasket.
Temi made her return on 6-29. She played 20:25. Amihere played 17:36. Neither of them started. That’s the only time they’ve played in the same game. Are you “so frustrated” about Nakase playing Amihere 3 minutes less in a single game?
Anyway, it makes sense for Nakase to try them both out in different situations in the same game to see what she’s got. Also, all the rotations will get upended again when Rupert comes, so I’m guessing probably which ever of them plays better alongside Rupert is going to get more minutes.
Oh okay fair enough about that. I guess I’ll recontectualizs my complaint, I think Amihere should rapidly gain a lot more minutes and should definitely get more minutes than Temi moving forward as her production on the floor has been vastly superior statistically.
Yeah, hoping they are doing the Celebrini approach here and being super careful since they are doing okay with Leite sitting out, but I was expecting she'd be avail after the week break. Hope this isn't something now serious or chronic.
Ok I'm gonna put my Vanloo induced existential crisis aside for a moment, so I can put this in a different perspective:
The Valkyries, a first year expansion team (is there any other kind) are so overflowing with talent, that other teams are signing their waived players!!
Not sure if anyone posted this before, but this 45 min interview with Juste from a month ago popped up on YouTube. Lots of info about her background, not a ton of pure basketball content, but I'm enjoying this so far - I'm about half way through.
Oh, and it starts off with her pronouncing her last name which is useful
Ok, finished the second half and they do get into some hoops. She said (humbly) her best quality is her BBIQ, and noted that most other things you can work to improve, but seeing the court is something you just need to have. Hmm, not great news for JK :). Her dad and uncle played professionally, and she had a ball in her hand starting from when she could walk.
Kind of a crazy life for these talented Europeans - she moved to France by herself at age 13 to join a team academy there, and started playing on their pro team just before turning 16. But, as a result, she speaks "street French" - maybe she and Carla can hang out, she is I think a half year younger than Carla.
She said she'll be playing in the Spanish league starting in the fall, but didn't say or I didn't catch which team. Can probably find that on Google - Edit: Google says:
Justė Jocytė is a Lithuanian professional basketball player currently playing for Uni Girona CB in the Liga Femenina de Baloncesto, which is a Spanish professional league.
I guess the question to be asked is...besides the Belgium players and Belgium fans...who else knew about the parade and awards ceremony? As a V's fan it never even crossed my mind.
Just unfortunate timing. I'm not sure if Coach Nat and the front office were keeping track of the Belgian post-championship plans as there's a lot to keep them occupied here.
I think the question is, why doesn’t it occur to them, if she’s on another continent coming off a big tournament, to tell her on zoom so she can decide what to do with her time?
They have tunnel vision around this idea of “there’s more integrity in firing someone face-to-face.” It was actually incredibly selfish and thoughtless. They’re pleased with themselves for being “principled.” (It’s like the cheating husband unburdening his conscience by telling his wife all the details of his affairs (when she didn’t ask). Meaning, it’s one-sided.)
Valks have a big marketing dept. keeping track of any buzz around the team, I don’t buy that they’re unaware. Zero word from Ohemaa. They’re being dismissive, at their peril.
If Carla Leite is in the team's long-term plans, I hope Coach Nat and Ohemaa talked to Carla about letting Julie go. If not, it might be a shock to her as she's a young rookie playing in the W for the first time. I hope it doesn't dampen her energy or stress her out.
This might be the first real test for NN. Kerr has mentioned before that a big part of coaching is managing egos and maintaining chemistry. Hopefully, Coach Nat is able to navigate this and maintain the positive team spirit.
But, didn't really cover how they did it, more just about cutting people is hard and players like Martin are sad about it. I would have liked it if they said something about they realized the timing was f**'d up and they will aim to be better at doing transactions in the future. I didn't see any quotes from ON, so maybe she can touch on it next time she speaks. But, just ignoring these things that really bother fans and probably potential FA players (next year) doesn't seem like the optimum approach. Some quotes from the article:
“It’s heartache, it’s painful,” said head coach Natalie Nakase. “Breaking up the family, it’s tough. It doesn’t feel good. Even for myself, I know I signed up for this position, but how I feel, no one ever has been able to set me up for that. You know, you can warn me, I’ve leaned on my mentors, but how I personally felt about each and every one of them, it’s literally like giving kids away.”
“We know basketball is a business, and, you know, I trust our front office and I trust our coaching staff. People are going to be missed,” said Martin. “Every single person who came in did exactly what they were supposed to do, everybody who was gone for EuroBasket basket, we missed dearly. And you know, I’ve grown great friendships with a lot of those players. And so the girls that got cut, got waived, we’re gonna miss them dearly.”
Interesting… I would have figured someone would have asked. But not everyone goes to the practice pressers, and an intern — however talented and good — isn’t necessarily going to stick her head out to piss off the GSV staff. I know the great Marisa Ingemi is on vacation too.
Also SFGate — which tends to take the hot take road — implies that Nakase double down on it by saying it’s respectful to tell JVL face to face. Nothing about the early press release. Nakase said it was a Ohemaa question and sounds like Ohemaa wasn’t there to properly comment. It sounds a bit disorganized.
Not sure they realize how much the onlineosphere is pissed about the JVL treatment.
Yeah, I saw the quote from NN, maybe they didn't really take the specifics into consideration, but at least "we wanted to tell her face to face" is a reason for the timing. Also, suggests that they did inform her before the PR went out, which isn't clear from JVLs posts.
But, I agree they don't seem to understand the strong reaction to this, maybe they need RR to give them some pointers.
I'm late but I'm glad they made the right move and cut Vanloo. I'm sorry but she was ass this season, combine that with her age and she made the most sense to drop. I know there's commotion about the "how" but I feel like the "how" is usually complaining about the "what" in disguise.
When the Valkyries started this season off, did they expect Burton to be this good? Did they expect Martin to be this good? Did they realize Leite was this ready? I do assume they expected Hayes to play well, but that's four guards already, if you are going to carry a fifth guard (and I expect Chen will be let go if Rupert comes over) shouldn't it be a developmental player and not a 32 year old? Not to mention Chen does move the ball well, although I'd like to see more scoring juice from her too.
WNBA should probably push for more roster spots in the next CBA though because I liked Bibby. Also wondering about Amihere, a ton of scoring talent but you can see the tunnel vision too a lot and the ugly turnover rate reflects that. But she's 23 so that's a player you can live with mistakes from so we'll see how she develops.
My sense is that some people were focused almost completely on the ‘how’, but many were focused on the ‘how’ and the ‘that’s. Those people who empathize deeply with J Van L expressed shock, but then felt very badly for her. And probably continue to feel badly. Others, and that includes many commenters in this discussion , felt badly for JVL and how she was hurt, but then they also went on to comment that it was probably the right decision because of one, her playing and two, that’s how things are done in the WNBA.
It is my sincere wish that in this new discussion group called Valkyrie Nation that we all focus on the team, the players, the WNBA, etc. This may further both learning and harmony.
Foo! Look, I think you're right about your analysis of the team (except the part about Bibby - the only thing she did was make a couple 3s when no one else could and she didn't really do anything else) but when I want to complain about the "what", I will and when I want to complain about the "how" I'll do that and not confuse them. While I might be a bit in my feels because I irrationally love Vanloo's game and personality, the how was also actually a problem in that it could do some damage to the team's reputation and that affects things like fee agent signings and also there's just being a quality organization for the sake of doing so and I care about those things (other fans may not but I guess that ON and NN and Lacob do, as well).
You are right that if Rupert comes, this is likely all immaterial anyway, but if she doesn't there is an argument, already made by Arnold, for keeping Vanloo.
If I were making the decisions, Amihere would not be on the bubble because she can do some things no one else on this team and not many in the league can do and that has value even considering the warts in her game.
tldr; you're mostly right about basketball, but maybe don't tell me why I am unhappy about what happened (I'm upset they treated her badly not that they made a basketball decision).
My sense is that some people were focused almost completely on the ‘how’, but many were focused on the ‘how’ and the ‘that’s. Those people who empathize deeply with J Van L expressed shock, but then felt very badly for her. And probably continue to feel badly. Others, and that includes many commenters in this discussion , felt badly for JVL and how she was hurt, but then they also went on to comment that it was probably the right decision because of one, her playing and two, that’s how things are done in the WNBA.
It is my sincere wish that in this new discussion group called Valkyrie Nation that we all focus on the team, the players, the WNBA, etc. This may further both learning and harmony.
From a purely basketball standpoint (just talking about the game - offense / defense), it totally makes sense to let JVL go. But from the intangibles perspective, Julie is well-loved by her teammates and fans. She played with joy. She's one of the reasons why Leite is ready. Julie was her "translator" because Carla is still learning English. I get the feeling that Julie was Carla's mentor. She's also very close to Ceci Zandalasini. She's the smart and savvy vet who is well-respected by the Euro players.
It's like cutting GP2 or JTA. Understandable move from a basketball perspective. But still hurts because they're well-loved.
Ugh. I was just coming to terms with this and now I feel it all fresh again! Really wish we had 14 or 15 roster spots ...
The more I think about this the more I don't like it. Assuming Rupert comes, they were likely to make this move soon anyway and in the short term, cutting Chen now who was expecting it and keeping Vanloo until Rupert arrived was the better political and fan friendly (despite the outrage sure to come when Chen gets released) and PR move.
OK if you're going to put things all in perspective and stuff then you are right, it was only 9 games! But what an amazing 9 games they were :D
And I don't care! I loved our goddess of chaos even though I knew, best case, she probably only lasted until next season and with Rupert coming and also loving our demi-goddess of chaos, Amihere, I knew there was probably pain in my future sooner or later. As I was kinda expecting it I was less upset than others at first, but as I wrote, the more i think about it, the more I think other were right and it was handled poorly.
On the other hand, I still miss Mitch Richmond, so maybe I should accept the real world and get over it.
I love that Julie mentioned "the Bay Area is really my vibe". That's as classy and honest of a statement as I've seen given the situation. Add the fact that English isn't her first language. That message was beautifully written.
Odd but I just saw that LA is hosting a kids camp back in Canada July 4-6 and we have a game on July 5. Granted, she probably scheduled that before the call back. But wonder how the team/she would handle this.
Players can be given games off for whatever reason the team approves, so if it’s important, LA can go. Similarly if Chen prioritizes this 3x3 league she supposedly signed up for.
Vanloo stuff is even stranger because move waiving her wasn't made at same time as Bibby/Hall yesterday. It's not on the Transactions page yet. I wonder if someone on GSV socials team screwed up. Decision made, but they were going to talk to her first and announce it today. PR jumped the gun.
And to be clear, that's still not great. Make the decision 24 hours earlier and let her stay in Belgium to celebrate with her national team. But at least it would've avoided the horrible outcome of basically cutting her as she's landing on the (very, very long) flight back from Europe.
09:02
Vanloo being waived just came through on the regular Transactions page update, by the way.
I think it will be a downer for a little while, since it is bad treatment of a well liked player. But it’s unimaginable that it was on purpose, so it will be a mistake that GSV will apologize for and improve their process, and everyone will move on.
It will probably be overshadowed by the fan outrage after they cut Chen. (Don’t shoot me, I’m only the messenger.)
The outrage over JVL is international - that’s a bigger problem for the org. imo than cutting a domestic favorite who only played what, 2 games?
The longer the FO doesn’t release a statement or hold a presser, the worse they’re making this. I’m REALLY surprised at how they’re dropping the ball here.
If Chen is cut, sure - there'll be some fan outrage. But internally - within the team and players - I think they won't be affected because I believe there's an understanding that Chen is just a temporary player to cover for the Eurobasket. Chen herself probably won't feel too upset, especially since she'll probably be paid the rookie minimum for the full season.
My worry is more about how Carla, Janelle and Ceci would feel. Will this dampen their spirits?
I'm pretty sure the local players (Kate, Mo, KT, VB, Tip) will be fine since they understand the harshness of the business. Same with Steph Talbot and Temi. But Carla and Janelle are new to the league and team.
The fact that Chen has not yet been cut means there's actually a chance they'll keep her. I'm rooting for Chen, but I won't be upset if they cut her. But, based on her play the past 2 games, I think she might actually earn her spot. She plays tough D, hustles, doesn't make many mistakes, and seems to make the right reads on offense. Same as when she played at UConn for 1 season. When scouting UConn, it's always about Paige, Azzi Fudd, Sarah Strong. But Kaitlyn Chen was always just there - steady, always making the right plays, nothing flashy. That's how she's playing now with the Valks.
If Rupert does join the team, I think one of these 3 can be cut. Chen, Amihere or Talbot. Likely Chen. But it's possible they cut or trade Talbot to give more playing time to Ceci and Kate Martin.
I am sure I am in the minority here but I wouldn't want to see more Martin at the expense of Talbot. Actually, though, I expect both to lose minutes to Salaün and Zandalasini.
If they keep Chen, I can imagine it’s because of positional balance… if Rupert comes, it’s much easier for her to take Talbot or Amihere’s minutes then Chen’s minutes.
Chen is a steady point guard, but I think she will get more exposed as teams game plan her… on defense because of small size, and on offense she isn’t a threat to finish inside so teams can sag way off her to take away the roll. A good player to amplify the strengths of the rest of the lineup but not to put pressure on the opposing defense or offense.
Don’t get me wrong… I would be *so* happy if Chen keeps growing into a solid role.
When I was watching UConn last season, that's also what I thought. Chen was their weak link that could be exploited. But she held her own most of the time. And she even made key plays as defenses focused on stopping Paige.
The W athletes are a different level for sure. But so far, I haven't seen Chen get cooked on D. Probably because she's playing against backups mostly. And also because opponents haven't really made an effort to target her. Maybe the opposing coaches are surprised that she's even playing. And she's able to actually get buckets when opponents don't take her seriously. At UConn, Chen displayed a short-game. She can make 10 to 15 foot jumpers or floaters off the bounce.
Her under-the-radar style kinda reminds me of George Hill from the Spurs back in the day. Nothing flashy. But solid and tough.
Well, GSV FO has the opportunity to make things right, at least PR-wise. ‘Cause it is a total contradiction of the culture NN has tirelessly built from the ground up. I hope they seize it.
My cousin is really upset about the way the Vanloo thing was handled. I saw the speculation that it was indecision followed by a miscue/miscommunication internally. Is there any evidence of that? Some place I could point her to?
No, but I assume GSV will make an official apology at some point. Wednesday there is a press availability at 2pm and they will either say something or certainly people will ask. It will be very interesting to see how they handle their first PR crisis.
Thanks. I am old and jaded but my cousin still feels all this stuff deeply (well, I am still processing Loon's departure) so we're trying to navigate everything. Patience is not one of either of our virtues (still looking for the list of what are, in fact, my virtues).
I'm so frustrated by Nakase not playing Amihere the minutes she deserves.
Look, Burton/Salaun/Thornton/Hayes have pretty much locked in their spots and their selections make sense even if I'm not the biggest fan of Thornton. What doesn't make sense, is why Fagbenle is getting minutes over a budding star in Amihere.
Here me out, lets start with Fagbenle. In terms of pure volume scoring, Fagbenle scores 10 ppg in 25 mpg while Amihere scores 9 ppg in 18 mpg. Per 36, Amihere is scoring 3 more points per game. In efficiency, they're identical. In rebounding, Amihere has a clear advantage with an elite 19 rbd% compared to Fagbenle's pedestrian 13 rbd%. In terms of rim protection, Amihere has a vastly superior blk% of 6.3% compared to Fagbenle's 3.3%.
In terms of net plus minus, the Valkyries are 6.8 pts worse with Fagbenle on the court. The Valkyries are 3.7 pts better with Amihere on the court. In damn near every facet of the game, Amihere is superior or at least even to Fagbenle. And Amihere is just 23 years old with lots of room for improvement while Fagbenle is 32 yrs old.
And yet, Fagbenle recevies 7 more minutes a game than Amihere. For the love of god, give Amihere those minutes and let her develop. She is imho, the future of this franchise if she maintains this level of play while scaling up her minutes.
I appreciate the enthusiasm for Amihere, but they’ve had two games of overlap and in the last game they got almost the same playing time. In the previous one (also v SEA), Temi was +3 and Amihere was -3.
So it’s waaay too early to be frustrated with Nakase.
If Amihere outplays Fagbenle consistently, then over time she’s going to get more and more playing time. But for now, Amihere is making a ton of bad defensive decisions to go along with the great plays (mainly against opposing benches). She may be the future but she has to earn her playing time with game plan discipline.
Even with those bad decisions, her plus minus is vastly superior to Fangbenle who is imho overrated as a defender playing solid enough positional defense but being an utter non factor in rim protection.
I think she's earned her playing time by being a better rebounder, rim protector, scorer, slightly better passer and the team has been far better with her on the court than Amihere. We'll just agree to disagree there.
You gotta include the stats you’re referring to (every +/- for each) if you’re going to make claims like this.
I did post the stats, look at the post above?
It’s too general. Only since it’s your argument, provide the stats that you’re working off of, so we can see how you arrived at this conclusion. Otherwise it looks like selective number crunching to prove a point you’re attached to.
We can agree to disagree about Amihere’s current play.
My point is that there was literally nothing to complain about Nakase’s rotations.
Amihere debuted on 6-14. There was no statistical track record for her and it would be insane to start a new player who had not been claimed by the entire league over your starting center. Then Temi left for Eurobasket.
Temi made her return on 6-29. She played 20:25. Amihere played 17:36. Neither of them started. That’s the only time they’ve played in the same game. Are you “so frustrated” about Nakase playing Amihere 3 minutes less in a single game?
Anyway, it makes sense for Nakase to try them both out in different situations in the same game to see what she’s got. Also, all the rotations will get upended again when Rupert comes, so I’m guessing probably which ever of them plays better alongside Rupert is going to get more minutes.
Oh okay fair enough about that. I guess I’ll recontectualizs my complaint, I think Amihere should rapidly gain a lot more minutes and should definitely get more minutes than Temi moving forward as her production on the floor has been vastly superior statistically.
FYI. Golden State Game Status Report for MIN game.
Carla Leite – OUT - Back
They are really getting their money’s worth on Chen.
Yeah, hoping they are doing the Celebrini approach here and being super careful since they are doing okay with Leite sitting out, but I was expecting she'd be avail after the week break. Hope this isn't something now serious or chronic.
Leite’s back saga unfolding like Kuminga’s ankle :(
Hoping this is partly to audition Chen as much and as long as possible. Still guessing the last spot is between her and Talbot.
That’s a good theory. Helps her to get the exposure even if she’s cut. Julie got snatched up super quick, there are needs out there.
Kayla Thornton isn't on the injury report. Allegedly. I don't know how to see the actual report.
I posted the complete report above
@mingemi.bsky.social: [[ The LA Sparks claimed Julie Vanloo off waivers from the Valkyries ]]
She checked in with a #6 jersey with no name on it yet
Ok I'm gonna put my Vanloo induced existential crisis aside for a moment, so I can put this in a different perspective:
The Valkyries, a first year expansion team (is there any other kind) are so overflowing with talent, that other teams are signing their waived players!!
She was reportedly waiting outside Barclays (Sparks are playing at NYL) with her luggage until the deal was official.
Just like in Coming to America. (Hopefully she still has her luggage.)
Very happy for JVL! She's going to be with her Belgian Cat teammate Julie Allemand. She's gonna be ok.
Woo hoo! NN wins coach of the month
https://bsky.app/profile/annkillion.bsky.social/post/3lt37runaps2z
odds on favorite for Coach of the Year?
https://youtu.be/hPUWniFq2Ks?si=KfSqDwA7xs4IldSH
Not sure if anyone posted this before, but this 45 min interview with Juste from a month ago popped up on YouTube. Lots of info about her background, not a ton of pure basketball content, but I'm enjoying this so far - I'm about half way through.
Oh, and it starts off with her pronouncing her last name which is useful
Ok, finished the second half and they do get into some hoops. She said (humbly) her best quality is her BBIQ, and noted that most other things you can work to improve, but seeing the court is something you just need to have. Hmm, not great news for JK :). Her dad and uncle played professionally, and she had a ball in her hand starting from when she could walk.
Kind of a crazy life for these talented Europeans - she moved to France by herself at age 13 to join a team academy there, and started playing on their pro team just before turning 16. But, as a result, she speaks "street French" - maybe she and Carla can hang out, she is I think a half year younger than Carla.
She said she'll be playing in the Spanish league starting in the fall, but didn't say or I didn't catch which team. Can probably find that on Google - Edit: Google says:
Justė Jocytė is a Lithuanian professional basketball player currently playing for Uni Girona CB in the Liga Femenina de Baloncesto, which is a Spanish professional league.
My bet is that when she comes to the Valks, her teammates will call her JJ.
Canilao adds: [[ Nakase said the Valkyries did not know that Vanloo skipped Belgium’s parade when they decided to cut her. ]]
https://www.mercurynews.com/2025/07/02/it-was-heartbreaking-why-valkyries-moved-on-from-julie-vanloo-after-eurobasket-stint/
I guess the question to be asked is...besides the Belgium players and Belgium fans...who else knew about the parade and awards ceremony? As a V's fan it never even crossed my mind.
Just unfortunate timing. I'm not sure if Coach Nat and the front office were keeping track of the Belgian post-championship plans as there's a lot to keep them occupied here.
I think the question is, why doesn’t it occur to them, if she’s on another continent coming off a big tournament, to tell her on zoom so she can decide what to do with her time?
They have tunnel vision around this idea of “there’s more integrity in firing someone face-to-face.” It was actually incredibly selfish and thoughtless. They’re pleased with themselves for being “principled.” (It’s like the cheating husband unburdening his conscience by telling his wife all the details of his affairs (when she didn’t ask). Meaning, it’s one-sided.)
Valks have a big marketing dept. keeping track of any buzz around the team, I don’t buy that they’re unaware. Zero word from Ohemaa. They’re being dismissive, at their peril.
If Carla Leite is in the team's long-term plans, I hope Coach Nat and Ohemaa talked to Carla about letting Julie go. If not, it might be a shock to her as she's a young rookie playing in the W for the first time. I hope it doesn't dampen her energy or stress her out.
This might be the first real test for NN. Kerr has mentioned before that a big part of coaching is managing egos and maintaining chemistry. Hopefully, Coach Nat is able to navigate this and maintain the positive team spirit.
Mia, the intern at SFChron, wrote about JVL:
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/article/waiving-julie-vanloo-valkyries-talk-breaking-20417466.php
But, didn't really cover how they did it, more just about cutting people is hard and players like Martin are sad about it. I would have liked it if they said something about they realized the timing was f**'d up and they will aim to be better at doing transactions in the future. I didn't see any quotes from ON, so maybe she can touch on it next time she speaks. But, just ignoring these things that really bother fans and probably potential FA players (next year) doesn't seem like the optimum approach. Some quotes from the article:
“It’s heartache, it’s painful,” said head coach Natalie Nakase. “Breaking up the family, it’s tough. It doesn’t feel good. Even for myself, I know I signed up for this position, but how I feel, no one ever has been able to set me up for that. You know, you can warn me, I’ve leaned on my mentors, but how I personally felt about each and every one of them, it’s literally like giving kids away.”
“We know basketball is a business, and, you know, I trust our front office and I trust our coaching staff. People are going to be missed,” said Martin. “Every single person who came in did exactly what they were supposed to do, everybody who was gone for EuroBasket basket, we missed dearly. And you know, I’ve grown great friendships with a lot of those players. And so the girls that got cut, got waived, we’re gonna miss them dearly.”
Interesting… I would have figured someone would have asked. But not everyone goes to the practice pressers, and an intern — however talented and good — isn’t necessarily going to stick her head out to piss off the GSV staff. I know the great Marisa Ingemi is on vacation too.
Also SFGate — which tends to take the hot take road — implies that Nakase double down on it by saying it’s respectful to tell JVL face to face. Nothing about the early press release. Nakase said it was a Ohemaa question and sounds like Ohemaa wasn’t there to properly comment. It sounds a bit disorganized.
Not sure they realize how much the onlineosphere is pissed about the JVL treatment.
https://www.sfgate.com/valkyries/article/valkyries-double-down-player-fly-18-hours-get-cut-20418050.php
A zoom with Julie in Europe counts as face to face, people! I can’t believe ON didn’t show up to the presser. I’m really disappointed in them.
Yeah, I saw the quote from NN, maybe they didn't really take the specifics into consideration, but at least "we wanted to tell her face to face" is a reason for the timing. Also, suggests that they did inform her before the PR went out, which isn't clear from JVLs posts.
But, I agree they don't seem to understand the strong reaction to this, maybe they need RR to give them some pointers.
Yep this could be their first PR trial… RR had a couple of controversies early in his tenure and seems to have recovered well from that.
Eric - is there some Valks presser this afternoon? Are you able to ask some questions?
There is press availability in the next couple of hours. I won’t be there. I’m sure others will ask plenty about the Vanloo screwup
I'm late but I'm glad they made the right move and cut Vanloo. I'm sorry but she was ass this season, combine that with her age and she made the most sense to drop. I know there's commotion about the "how" but I feel like the "how" is usually complaining about the "what" in disguise.
When the Valkyries started this season off, did they expect Burton to be this good? Did they expect Martin to be this good? Did they realize Leite was this ready? I do assume they expected Hayes to play well, but that's four guards already, if you are going to carry a fifth guard (and I expect Chen will be let go if Rupert comes over) shouldn't it be a developmental player and not a 32 year old? Not to mention Chen does move the ball well, although I'd like to see more scoring juice from her too.
WNBA should probably push for more roster spots in the next CBA though because I liked Bibby. Also wondering about Amihere, a ton of scoring talent but you can see the tunnel vision too a lot and the ugly turnover rate reflects that. But she's 23 so that's a player you can live with mistakes from so we'll see how she develops.
My sense is that some people were focused almost completely on the ‘how’, but many were focused on the ‘how’ and the ‘that’s. Those people who empathize deeply with J Van L expressed shock, but then felt very badly for her. And probably continue to feel badly. Others, and that includes many commenters in this discussion , felt badly for JVL and how she was hurt, but then they also went on to comment that it was probably the right decision because of one, her playing and two, that’s how things are done in the WNBA.
It is my sincere wish that in this new discussion group called Valkyrie Nation that we all focus on the team, the players, the WNBA, etc. This may further both learning and harmony.
Foo! Look, I think you're right about your analysis of the team (except the part about Bibby - the only thing she did was make a couple 3s when no one else could and she didn't really do anything else) but when I want to complain about the "what", I will and when I want to complain about the "how" I'll do that and not confuse them. While I might be a bit in my feels because I irrationally love Vanloo's game and personality, the how was also actually a problem in that it could do some damage to the team's reputation and that affects things like fee agent signings and also there's just being a quality organization for the sake of doing so and I care about those things (other fans may not but I guess that ON and NN and Lacob do, as well).
You are right that if Rupert comes, this is likely all immaterial anyway, but if she doesn't there is an argument, already made by Arnold, for keeping Vanloo.
If I were making the decisions, Amihere would not be on the bubble because she can do some things no one else on this team and not many in the league can do and that has value even considering the warts in her game.
tldr; you're mostly right about basketball, but maybe don't tell me why I am unhappy about what happened (I'm upset they treated her badly not that they made a basketball decision).
My sense is that some people were focused almost completely on the ‘how’, but many were focused on the ‘how’ and the ‘that’s. Those people who empathize deeply with J Van L expressed shock, but then felt very badly for her. And probably continue to feel badly. Others, and that includes many commenters in this discussion , felt badly for JVL and how she was hurt, but then they also went on to comment that it was probably the right decision because of one, her playing and two, that’s how things are done in the WNBA.
It is my sincere wish that in this new discussion group called Valkyrie Nation that we all focus on the team, the players, the WNBA, etc. This may further both learning and harmony.
From a purely basketball standpoint (just talking about the game - offense / defense), it totally makes sense to let JVL go. But from the intangibles perspective, Julie is well-loved by her teammates and fans. She played with joy. She's one of the reasons why Leite is ready. Julie was her "translator" because Carla is still learning English. I get the feeling that Julie was Carla's mentor. She's also very close to Ceci Zandalasini. She's the smart and savvy vet who is well-respected by the Euro players.
It's like cutting GP2 or JTA. Understandable move from a basketball perspective. But still hurts because they're well-loved.
I hope Lacob / Kerr makes JVL an offer to be one of their 15 assistant coaches. Such a positive person. She should be in the Bay.
💔 for my Goddess of Chaos
JVL with a very gracious and honest note on her Instagram: https://bsky.app/profile/mingemi.bsky.social/post/3lswkvwav4c2f
Ugh. I was just coming to terms with this and now I feel it all fresh again! Really wish we had 14 or 15 roster spots ...
The more I think about this the more I don't like it. Assuming Rupert comes, they were likely to make this move soon anyway and in the short term, cutting Chen now who was expecting it and keeping Vanloo until Rupert arrived was the better political and fan friendly (despite the outrage sure to come when Chen gets released) and PR move.
Yeah, the insane thing is that Julie played 9 games and yet a lot of us are really attached to her. (Chen has played FOUR games!)
It's unusually emotional following this bunch of underdogs together.
I'll be real, I got Jordan Poole flashbacks when I watched Vanloo play and was the opposite of attached lol. Like Poole though she does seem nice.
OK if you're going to put things all in perspective and stuff then you are right, it was only 9 games! But what an amazing 9 games they were :D
And I don't care! I loved our goddess of chaos even though I knew, best case, she probably only lasted until next season and with Rupert coming and also loving our demi-goddess of chaos, Amihere, I knew there was probably pain in my future sooner or later. As I was kinda expecting it I was less upset than others at first, but as I wrote, the more i think about it, the more I think other were right and it was handled poorly.
On the other hand, I still miss Mitch Richmond, so maybe I should accept the real world and get over it.
The only answer is to never love
Yes. cold hearted indifference to avoid pain. sign me up.
I love that Julie mentioned "the Bay Area is really my vibe". That's as classy and honest of a statement as I've seen given the situation. Add the fact that English isn't her first language. That message was beautifully written.
WTF. I'm tearing up reading this. What a beautiful soul. Respect.
July 3 update. VanLoo to the Sparks. Thorton practicing, Salün and Ceci Z. not yet seen practicing.
July 3 update 2. Valkyries and the summer league warriors alternate games every other day from the 5th through the 16th this month.
Odd but I just saw that LA is hosting a kids camp back in Canada July 4-6 and we have a game on July 5. Granted, she probably scheduled that before the call back. But wonder how the team/she would handle this.
Players can be given games off for whatever reason the team approves, so if it’s important, LA can go. Similarly if Chen prioritizes this 3x3 league she supposedly signed up for.
This would make sense to me -
Richard Cohen @richardcohen.bsky.social
06:34 Jul 1
Vanloo stuff is even stranger because move waiving her wasn't made at same time as Bibby/Hall yesterday. It's not on the Transactions page yet. I wonder if someone on GSV socials team screwed up. Decision made, but they were going to talk to her first and announce it today. PR jumped the gun.
And to be clear, that's still not great. Make the decision 24 hours earlier and let her stay in Belgium to celebrate with her national team. But at least it would've avoided the horrible outcome of basically cutting her as she's landing on the (very, very long) flight back from Europe.
09:02
Vanloo being waived just came through on the regular Transactions page update, by the way.
I hope this doesn't dampen the good vibes and happy / party atmosphere of the Valks.
I think it will be a downer for a little while, since it is bad treatment of a well liked player. But it’s unimaginable that it was on purpose, so it will be a mistake that GSV will apologize for and improve their process, and everyone will move on.
It will probably be overshadowed by the fan outrage after they cut Chen. (Don’t shoot me, I’m only the messenger.)
The outrage over JVL is international - that’s a bigger problem for the org. imo than cutting a domestic favorite who only played what, 2 games?
The longer the FO doesn’t release a statement or hold a presser, the worse they’re making this. I’m REALLY surprised at how they’re dropping the ball here.
If Chen is cut, sure - there'll be some fan outrage. But internally - within the team and players - I think they won't be affected because I believe there's an understanding that Chen is just a temporary player to cover for the Eurobasket. Chen herself probably won't feel too upset, especially since she'll probably be paid the rookie minimum for the full season.
My worry is more about how Carla, Janelle and Ceci would feel. Will this dampen their spirits?
I'm pretty sure the local players (Kate, Mo, KT, VB, Tip) will be fine since they understand the harshness of the business. Same with Steph Talbot and Temi. But Carla and Janelle are new to the league and team.
The fact that Chen has not yet been cut means there's actually a chance they'll keep her. I'm rooting for Chen, but I won't be upset if they cut her. But, based on her play the past 2 games, I think she might actually earn her spot. She plays tough D, hustles, doesn't make many mistakes, and seems to make the right reads on offense. Same as when she played at UConn for 1 season. When scouting UConn, it's always about Paige, Azzi Fudd, Sarah Strong. But Kaitlyn Chen was always just there - steady, always making the right plays, nothing flashy. That's how she's playing now with the Valks.
>The fact that Chen has not yet been cut means there's actually a chance they'll keep her
More likely they just don't have a timetable for Rupert's arrival yet and no need to let Chen go until they need the roster spot.
Curious who you think they would release in lieu of Chen if she stayed after Rupert arrived?
If Rupert does join the team, I think one of these 3 can be cut. Chen, Amihere or Talbot. Likely Chen. But it's possible they cut or trade Talbot to give more playing time to Ceci and Kate Martin.
I am sure I am in the minority here but I wouldn't want to see more Martin at the expense of Talbot. Actually, though, I expect both to lose minutes to Salaün and Zandalasini.
If they keep Chen, I can imagine it’s because of positional balance… if Rupert comes, it’s much easier for her to take Talbot or Amihere’s minutes then Chen’s minutes.
Chen is a steady point guard, but I think she will get more exposed as teams game plan her… on defense because of small size, and on offense she isn’t a threat to finish inside so teams can sag way off her to take away the roll. A good player to amplify the strengths of the rest of the lineup but not to put pressure on the opposing defense or offense.
Don’t get me wrong… I would be *so* happy if Chen keeps growing into a solid role.
When I was watching UConn last season, that's also what I thought. Chen was their weak link that could be exploited. But she held her own most of the time. And she even made key plays as defenses focused on stopping Paige.
The W athletes are a different level for sure. But so far, I haven't seen Chen get cooked on D. Probably because she's playing against backups mostly. And also because opponents haven't really made an effort to target her. Maybe the opposing coaches are surprised that she's even playing. And she's able to actually get buckets when opponents don't take her seriously. At UConn, Chen displayed a short-game. She can make 10 to 15 foot jumpers or floaters off the bounce.
Her under-the-radar style kinda reminds me of George Hill from the Spurs back in the day. Nothing flashy. But solid and tough.
Well, GSV FO has the opportunity to make things right, at least PR-wise. ‘Cause it is a total contradiction of the culture NN has tirelessly built from the ground up. I hope they seize it.
My cousin is really upset about the way the Vanloo thing was handled. I saw the speculation that it was indecision followed by a miscue/miscommunication internally. Is there any evidence of that? Some place I could point her to?
No, but I assume GSV will make an official apology at some point. Wednesday there is a press availability at 2pm and they will either say something or certainly people will ask. It will be very interesting to see how they handle their first PR crisis.
Thanks. I am old and jaded but my cousin still feels all this stuff deeply (well, I am still processing Loon's departure) so we're trying to navigate everything. Patience is not one of either of our virtues (still looking for the list of what are, in fact, my virtues).